yugaya
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yugaya
MemberMomire hvala na javljanju i informacijama nadam se da ćete stupiti u kontakt sa rođakom.
MemberRadovane ako želite da objavite u formi istraživačkog članka prepis domovnog protokola Mokrina ili bliže podatke vezane za pravoslavne porodice iz Mokrina i njihovo poreklo i istoriju molim da se javite porukom, pošto je veliki broj ljudi iz Mokrina išao u Ameriku da radi a mnogi su tamo i ostali.
MemberNIKOLA PREMERL, son of her brother still lives in Batajnica, Belgrade, Serbia.
I will send you in a PM a link to his fb profile, as well as his sister NINA.
I am sure they will be able to communicate with you in English.
Memberovde imate informacije o originalnim popisima koji su preko stranice Mađarskog državnog arhiva dostupni na internetu:
MemberFirst read our research section, it will help you get familiar with heritage and things to keep in mind that differ when researching Serbian ancestors who lived in Austria-Hungary and the province of Military Frontier:
http://www.rodoslovlje.com/documentation/serbian-genealogy
http://www.rodoslovlje.com/documentation/guide-researching-ethnic-serbian-ancestors-austria-hungary
You will find an article there about Serbian Trade Association “Privrednik”:
http://www.rodoslovlje.com/documentation/serbian-trade-association-privrednik-merchant-database
Check if any of your ancestors are in its records either as cadets or employers. That will also give you a more exact location of origin – people who emigrated rarely came from towns and their place of origin or last residence listed as KULA in ship manifest may have only been the municipal centre where their travel papers were issued.
If you have any original documents from before emigrating, ship manifest, naturalization papers send them to us for a review, as well as family correspondence.
For more clues – if they emigrated and remained Serbian Orthodox obtain the scans of the original records from the church, including the original entries for any birth or marriage of their children.
That should provide you with exact location of birth(parish) for both of them.
As far as religious conversion is concerned there must be a chuirch record of that, all religions kept records of conversion and until the end of WWI and even later when church vital records were still being used ( copies) in municipal offices any conversion was noted in them too, in both the religion of origin and the one a person converted to.
More hints when I look in more detail but if you could provide information on whether and who emigrated and when that would help a lot.
MemberFor those in Austria and Australia if they are from Bosnia – these would be more recent migrations, probably in the 90s and are worth giving it a shot, some may be from Dolac families.
Your first try should be heritage associations of Serbs like this one :
MemberDa morate otići i raditi u arhivu Sisak ALI.
-Prvo uputite zvaničan upit da li se one MK koje vas tačno zanimaju i za koje su oni zakonski nadležni i koji bi po zakonu tamo morale biti uopšte nalaze u njihovom fizičkom posedu ili su usled okolnosti koje su izvan njihovih mogućnosti negde drugde, u nekim slučajevima čak i na njima nepoznatoj lokaciji. 🙁
Zaposleni u tom arhivu su izuzetno stručni i profesionalni i sigurna sam da će vam pomoći koliko je to objektivno u okviru i nadležnosti njihovog posla, i problemi istraživanja porekla porodica na tom području vezani su za neke druge stvari kojima se mi ovde bavimo samo u toj meri da ćemo vas upozoriti na raskorak između kataloga, zakona i stvarnog stanja na terenu.
Za etimologiju moram pregledati izvore pa ću vam ostaviti poseban komentar. ostale izvore podataka i preporuke za istraživanje pogledajte ovde :
http://www.rodoslovlje.com/documentation/guide-researching-ethnic-serbian-ancestors-austria-hungary
( uz posebnu preporuku da potražite starog sisačkog paroha oca Olujića koji je najbolje upućen u to šta postoji u crkvenim arhivama i gde )
a za to područje izuzetno je interesantan izvor podataka i zbirka popisa vojnih obveznika Austrijske i Austrougarske vojske dostupna za pretragu po godinama ovde:
MemberIt is a relatively rare surname (more frequent is deriven one VULETIĆ ) and I do not see any other Vuleta ethnicity from Bosnia only Serbs.
Religious conversions which as a consequence created shift in ethnic affiliation did occur a lot in XVI, XVII century but in the Balkans genealogy that research is a very slippery slope.
As for Vuleta ethnic Croats from Croatia – you would have to trace back in anthropology literature migrations and look for links with specific branches but that is not something easily documented or welcome ( people even like to even invent a lot just to prove that same surnames found in different ethnic groups are not related at all.) My advice would be to look for relatives among Vuleta ethnic Serbs only from anywhere from former Yugoslavia.
From public records, there was some migrating of Vuletas from Bosnia ( Serbs) to Croatia after WWI and that is the only branch I can confirm is related to your ancestors, but these are identified as Serbs from Croatia.
Try looking for Vuleta people from Serbia proper – Serbian refugees from Bosnia and Croatia after the most recent conflicts mostly settled there, and there was a branch from Dolac who already resided in Belgrade prior to 1941.
If you have any photographs of your ancestors send them to my email and we can post them on our fb page for more visibility and forward your search locally.
MemberI found no records for MALOSAVIC surname anywhere. You should consider it a misspeliing. Since people back then mostly married within their comfort zone of same ethnicity and religion and a few parishes that formed a community, I suggest you look for similar surnames from the same area that would correspond to that spelling you have.
The only corresponding surname from the nearby parishes in Glamoč municipality is MALEŠEVIĆ.
MemberAs far as traveling under someone else’s name when it comes to ethnic Serbs is concerned all the cases I reviewed but one that have been blamed on that (or even explained by *experts*) turned out to be a bunch of ideas stitched together into theories that only lack of knowledge of facts and period customs and Serbs in general holds together. 🙂 Also your ancestor apparently arrived before WWI started if he was already in the US in 1914.
Real possibilities :
1. name and surname and place of origin are so badly misspelled by indexers that only by sheer luck you will find emigration records or ship manifests. Have you tried to locate naturalization papers? Have you obtained records from Serbian Orthodox Church he attended in the US if he remained Serbian Orthodox?
Parish will have had the priests make lists of parishioners and there is often data on things like year of arrival, relatives in the old country, relatives that also emigrated, more detailed information on place of origin including household number and exact parish where they were born2. Name and surname were written into ship manifests based on travel documents people had with them. If these travel documents were issued in official language like Hungarian for people coming from Austia-Hungary then their surnames will be spelled according to rules of that language, and their first names will be replaced by the equivalent name from Hungarian language. ( Stefan would be István etc).
Also in this category would go emigrants from territories under the Ottoman rule whose family name was subject to patronimic change with each generation, and people would be listed the way the Ottomans recorded their Serbian subjects – with first name and instead of the surname there would be the first name of the father.
According to the information I have from church censuses and Victims of War 1941-1945 census there is a RISTO VULETA who was born in 1870., Dolac, Glamoč, Bosnia and who was killed in 1943. First name of his father was Simo Vuleta too – this would be in line with the naming customs among ethnic Serbs about which you can read more here :
http://www.rodoslovlje.com/documentation/naming-customs-among-ethnic-serbs-xix-century
Do you have any information if your ancestors were in contact with their family in the old country or visited after emigrating ? Do you know of any VULETA relatives who emigrated and then returned( especiall if they returned as volunteers to fight on the side of Serbia in WWI) ?
I have attached for you here the snapshot from the official census of WWII victims, with VULETA family from Dolac, Glamoč.
I hope this helps – other than public records, you should try tracking down descendants of Vuletas from Dolac and Glamoč on social networks and maybe someone who speaks English will be able to tell you more and confirm the information, since oral genealogy tradition was / is strong among Serbs from that area.
For details on how your relatives Vuleta from Dolac were killed during WWII and if there are any more detailed information and accounts available please email me on
MemberNo records for LAHM family in Crvenka Roman Catholic records.
ENGEL family from Zrenjanin as well as ENGEL family from Kanjiža and several other towns in same region in public records is listed as being of Jewish religion.
Engel Lipót, merchant from Kanjiža found in Privrednik database was killed in Auschwitz in 1944.
Members of ENGEL family from Zrenjanin are listed in official census of Victims of War 1941-1945 to have perished in concentration camps too.
I hope this helps with your research, but unless you know or have a way to get hold of documents that can confirm the religion of these families before emigrating, I can only point you to try and obtain information from civil vital records which are stored in municipal offices in Serbia.
http://www.rodoslovlje.com/documentation/municipal-offices-serbia-civil-vital-records
MemberI have access to records for Roman Catholics from Crvenka so I will look up that for you later – you did not mention what the religion of your ancestors was and it needs to be confirmed so that I can help you more.
If your ancestors were Roman catholic then you can subscribe to the Kalocsa diocese e-archive and research that branch online all the way to the beginning of XIX century in original vital records. You can read more on that e-archive on these links:
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES/2013-05/1367409114
http://www.rodoslovlje.com/forum/vojvodina/kalocsa-roman-catholic-archdiocese-e-archive
If your ancestors were ethnic Germans ( Donauschwaben) I suggest you join DVHH website
and mailing list :
http://www.dvhh.org/community/mail-list.htm
because you will find a lot of resources through them and they can look up information on the ENGEL family from Zrenjanin for you.
Also look if any of your ancestors were employers of the cadets of Serbian Trade Association “Privrednik”.
Here are results from their online databes for two empoyers ( *Poslodavac* column) LAHM ADAM in year 1928. and LAHM DANIEL in 1930., both shoemakers.
Different name of shopowners in same family usually suggests there was a change of ownership ( old owner retired from business or passed away).
Here are results for ENGEL surname:
Only one in Kanjiža, identified as ethnic Hungarian, and no results for Zrenjanin.
MemberIf there was a separate Lutheran parish in Zabalj then in the records I can only find people from your families who married into RC faith – like that LANG lady. 🙂
I will try to look more when I have time, and see who you should contact locally in Lutheran church in Serbia because vital records of all religious communities were returned to them from state archives last year,. There are copies in municipal offices and archives but these can only be researched if you either come yourself and ask for information or hire a researcher and obtain research permit for that person to get information on your behalf ( our privacy laws are a bit conservative and only direct descendants are allowed access to information).
MemberPrema zvaničnom popisu žrtava rata SOLAR MILAN, od oca Đure, iz sela ŠIBINE, rođen je 1913. a poginuo 1943. na Sutjesci.
Ovo su starije matične knjige iz XIX veka, a pogledajte da li vam je neko od predaka bio i među pitomcima ili poslodavcima Srpskog Privrednog Društva “Privrednik” :
Za novije matične knjige i podatke iz njih moraćete u arhive u Hrvatsku. Gospodin koji je vlasnik portala poreklo.rs je nedavno bio tamo i popisao je sve koje se nalaze u arhivu Gospić ( uz ogradu da su neke matične knjige rođenih samo naknadno rekonstruisane nakon 1945. i u njih su upisani samo oni koji su posle rata bili živi) . Taj spisak će biti i ovde kod nas objavljen, a za sada ga imate ovde :
http://www.poreklo.rs/2013/11/15/spisak-svih-crkvenih-knjiga-u-drzavnom-arhivu-u-gospicu-lika/
Za ostale arhive imamo podatke za DASK arhiv u Sisku i arhiv u Zadru. Arhiv u Sisku ima i internet pretraživač na svojoj stranici ovde:
MemberI suggest that you use the social networks like facebook to track down younger relatives with same surname from same village – they will be able to communicate in English and can translate for you the detailed genealogy research two older members of the family have done – one of them is even the village municipal office clerk, and the family history was interesting enough to be featured in one of most popular newspapers in Serbia :
http://www.politika.rs/rubrike/Drustvo/Stablo-Talijana-chuva-korene.lt.html
Photo in this article is from the fourth annual gathering of TALIJAN family in Azanja.
Another article from year later :
http://www.vesti-online.com/Stampano-izdanje/13-08-2010/Reportaza/74220/Susret-carske-porodice
and from Serbian TV report on heritage exhibition on Azanja that was organised in town of Kragujevac in 2011 :
http://www.rts.rs/page/stories/sr/story/57/Srbija+danas/1015572/Azanjci+u+celoj+Srbiji.html
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