Sergej

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  • in reply to: Cannot find records – Ljubuški, Bosnia-Herzegovina #40444
    Avatar photoSergej
    Spectator

    Hi Tanner,

    I took some time to look into this more carefully and went through a number of the underlying reference works behind the material I shared earlier. That helped clarify things quite a bit.

    What emerges from those sources is that Vuković appears as an older, primary lineage, while names like Petrović are later branches that developed from within that same kin structure. In the regions we’re dealing with—Eastern Herzegovina and Montenegro—families were historically organized in large clan-based systems. Within those, surnames were not fixed in the modern sense. Instead, different branches would take on new surnames based on a more recent ancestor.

    So at some point, a branch descending from a man named Petar would adopt the name Petrović, even though earlier they belonged to a broader lineage such as Vuković. This is not an isolated occurrence—there are multiple references in the material that confirm this kind of transition and specifically point to Petrović lines emerging from older clan structures connected to Vuković-type lineages.

    What strengthens this further is that both the Vuković and Petrović references consistently point to the same geographic core:

    Eastern Herzegovina
    The Montenegrin border regions (especially around Nikšić, Banjani, Piva, and Morača)

    From there, the sources describe a clear migration pattern over time:

    movement out of those original clan regions
    settlement in other parts of Herzegovina and Montenegro
    and eventually relocation into Western Herzegovina, including the Ljubuški area

    That matches very well with what you’re seeing in your documents. In other words, Ljubuški is most likely the place where your family name Petrović had already become stable, while the deeper lineage—going further back—connects to earlier names like Vuković.

    At this stage, the broader historical picture is quite solid. The next step is to move from that framework to specific individuals, and for that you’ll want to start locally:

    Catholic parish records in the Ljubuški area
    Civil registries (birth, marriage, death records)
    Local archives tied to specific villages (like Klobuk, Veljaci, Vrpolje)

    Those are the sources that can actually connect names, dates, and places, and sometimes even mention earlier origins.

    For transparency, here are the main reference works and source groups I checked that support this reconstruction:

    Svetozar Tomić – Banjani (SANU ethnographic collection)
    Marko B. Rašović – Plemena Kuči
    Petar Mrkonjić (Atanasije Pejatović) – Srednje Polimlje i Potarje
    Sekula Dobričanin – Donja Morača
    Tadeuš Rakočević – O Donjoj Morači
    Ilija Sindik – Dubrovnik i okolina
    Branislav Cerović – Durmitor i kanjon Tare
    Dr Milo Marković – Bratstva u Bratonožićima
    Drago Stanišić – Bjelopavlići (brotherhood lists)
    Nikola P. Jovanović – Bjelopavlićka brigada u Balkanskom ratu
    Various parish and civil registers (Budva, Kotor, Tivat, Berane, Ulcinj, etc.)
    Archival materials and manuscripts collected by Vukota Miljanić

    These works all point in the same direction: older clan-based lineages (like Vuković) branching over time into later surnames (like Petrović), combined with steady migration from Eastern Herzegovina/Montenegro toward Herzegovina and beyond.

    If you want, I can help you identify the exact parish or archive in Ljubuški to contact first—that’s usually where things start becoming very concrete.

    Best,
    Sergei

    in reply to: Cannot find records – Ljubuški, Bosnia-Herzegovina #40442
    Avatar photoSergej
    Spectator

    Hi Tanner,

    Let me add some structure and context to what you’ve already uncovered, because the pieces you have are actually consistent with how families in this region developed over time.

    Prior to WWII, relations between Orthodox and Catholic communities were often more pragmatic than what we tend to assume today. In areas where one church was absent, people would use the other. That kind of overlap was not unusual and reflects how fluid identity could be at the local level.

    Now, regarding the names themselves. Petrović literally means “son of Petar,” and because of that it is an extremely common surname. On its own, it doesn’t point to one specific family line. What matters more is how surnames functioned historically in this region.

    In the areas of Eastern Herzegovina and Montenegro, families were organized in a clan-based (tribal) system. A larger kin group would share a common ancestor, but surnames were not fixed in the modern sense. Instead, they often changed depending on which forefather a particular branch chose to identify with. So a lineage could originate from one root family name and later split into multiple surnames over generations.

    This is exactly what we see with Vuković. In the material I reviewed, Vuković appears as a root lineage from which several other family names emerged. Different branches took on new surnames based on later ancestors, which is how names like Babović, Pečenac, Stojanović, and others developed. The same mechanism applies to Petrović—at some point, a branch descended from a Petar began identifying itself through that name.

    Geographically, the Vuković families in your material are strongly tied to regions that match your story: the wider area of Eastern Herzegovina and the Montenegrin borderlands, especially places like Banjani (near Nikšić), Piva, Morača, and parts of what later connects to Bijelo Polje and the Bjelopavlići region. These areas were major sources of later migration, both internally (toward coastal regions like Boka Kotorska) and eventually abroad.

    What you described about the movement toward Ljubuški—settling in places like Klobuk, Veljaci, and nearby villages—fits well within known migration patterns. Families often moved from the Herzegovina–Montenegro highlands toward western Herzegovina, and in some cases adopted Catholicism along the way. During such transitions, it was also common for surnames to shift or adapt, for example from Vuković to forms like Vukojević, before later branches adopted names like Petrović.

    One important takeaway is that these changes were not random or unusual. They reflect a system where identity followed lineage rather than a fixed surname. The same extended family could, over time, appear under different names depending on location, religion, or which ancestor defined that branch.

    So what you are seeing—Vuković in an earlier phase, then Vukojević in Klobuk, and later Petrović in migration records—is consistent with how these family structures evolved. It’s less a break in lineage and more a shift in naming within the same broader kin network.

    If you have any additional details such as a village name, family tradition, or even a patron saint (Slava), those can often narrow things down further, since those markers tend to remain more stable than surnames.

    I have some leads that you could follow up to, like Archives, Parishes and local sources that you can use. So let me know and I can post them here 😉

    Best,
    Sergei

    in reply to: Cannot find records – Ljubuški, Bosnia-Herzegovina #40440
    Avatar photoSergej
    Spectator

    Alright, I think I have some leads for you. But I need to get some books, old fashioned way, so let me check those and get back to you asap!

    in reply to: Cannot find records – Ljubuški, Bosnia-Herzegovina #40437
    Avatar photoSergej
    Spectator

    Hi Tanner,

    Welcome, whats the surname in question?
    Regards,
    Sergej

    in reply to: Selo Oparić u Levču, porodica Dačić #32135
    Avatar photoSergej
    Spectator

    Zdravo Stefane,

    Veoma zanimljiva porodična istorija. Mislim da bi trebalo da se obratite sledećim arhivama u vezi sa podacima o popisu:
    Istorijski arhiv „Srednje Pomoravlje” Jagodina
    35 000 Jagodina
    Milana Mijalkovića 14

    https://arhivja.org.rs/

    I od 1925 godine naravno kod https://www.rekovac.rs/

     

    Pozdrav,

    Sergej

    in reply to: Research advice for Surname Marković #32131
    Avatar photoSergej
    Spectator

    Ok, I did some checking and the best place to start is here: https://arhivue.org.rs/ Its the archives in Uzice. There are still some people with the same surname in the region you could contact: https://www.agroponuda.com/lokacija_ponudjac/uzice?page=17

    Also the Serbian Orthodox Church is an option: https://www.facebook.com/svetigeorgije.ue/?locale=sr_RS

    Does your family have a Family Saint? Usually an icon in the living room somewhere and a Slava?

     

     

    in reply to: Research advice for Surname Marković #32129
    Avatar photoSergej
    Spectator

    Hi there,

    We have a lot of posts like these but also documentation in the Learning Center. Dobrodo is a small town close to Uzice. Let me do some checking for you to see if I can find you some leads.

     

    in reply to: NOVAKOVIĆ #32126
    Avatar photoSergej
    Spectator

    Just following up to see if you managed to find the Archival Network?

    in reply to: NOVAKOVIĆ #32125
    Avatar photoSergej
    Spectator

    Yes most websites eventually go do, we managed to be up for 20 years and hope to collect more databases on our own server.

    Did you see any icons at the family home? E.g. an icon that would be in the living room?

    Yes, Radivoje and other names can be a nickname as well for Rade.

    The Croatian Archives are online, did you check our Archival Network page in the Learning Center?

    in reply to: NOVAKOVIĆ #32123
    Avatar photoSergej
    Spectator

    Rade would be short for Radomir. You mentioned the family saint, do you know which one this is? It makes it easier for me to give you additional info. Ellis Island is known for its mistakes, but there is still information that we could use. Do you happen to have the maiden name of Stana maybe?

    in reply to: NOVAKOVIĆ #32120
    Avatar photoSergej
    Spectator

    Hello Laura,

     

    I cannot see the family tree as I need to have an account on Ancestry?

    Do you have a screenshot from the Ellis Island records?

     

    Regards,

     

    Sergej

    in reply to: Need help with translation #32104
    Avatar photoSergej
    Spectator

    Ok here is a translation:

    In memory of me
    Got it(unclear piece)from Bose Alasob, June 8, 1940, Belgrade

    Send to Jata Pokić

     

    Hope this helps a bit.

    in reply to: Need help with translation #32103
    Avatar photoSergej
    Spectator

    Hi there and welcome!

    Ill go check it out, as for Zrenjanin. They have local archives and you should write them. Just check the Learning Center for info.

    in reply to: Marta VUJNOVIĆ Spisak čamaca 1907 #32090
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    Spectator

    Hmm, what you could try are the following workarounds

    1. Try via the LDS Family Search as they actually microfilmed everything for the Croatian Archives,

    2. See if a local can do it for you.

    in reply to: Pomoc oko prevođenja ćirilice #32088
    Avatar photoSergej
    Spectator

    Evo sad cu gledati, bio sam bolestan 😉

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 1,898 total)